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Charter Schools

POLL: Will Charter Schools Improve the Lot of Minority Groups in NZ?

I HAVE WITHDRAWN THE POLL – THE EXPLANATION IS HERE.  

NACT assure us that Charter Schools are being brought in to help Maori and Pacifika students achieve better results.  They don’t offer any evidence, in fact Catherine Isaac said on Campbell Live tonight (23.4.13) that they “might improve things,” so it seems even she isn’t that sure.

But all of that aside, what do YOU think?

Feel free to comment below, too.  I’d love to hear people’s reasoning for or against or whether they are just plain confused.

Further reading:

NAct’s Vision for NZ Education (You Scratch My Back and I’ll Scratch Yours)

Competition, Choice and Market Forces

Making Money Out of Our Kids’ Education

My Submission on the Education Amendment Bill

I HAVE WITHDRAWN THE POLL – THE EXPLANATION IS HERE.  

About Save Our Schools NZ

"One needs to be slow to form convictions, but once formed they must be defended against the heaviest odds." Gandhi

Discussion

36 thoughts on “POLL: Will Charter Schools Improve the Lot of Minority Groups in NZ?

  1. Not the only proof for voting not that’s out there, but some of the most recent: what one of our country’s best historians witnessed while teaching in Chicago – http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/manukau-courier/8542094/Charter-plan-wrong

    Like

    Posted by Lena | April 24, 2013, 7:20 am
    • So you can’t even tell the difference between Chicago, Illinois and Detroit, Michigan. Jeez, I hope you’re not a teacher.

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      Posted by Toby | April 25, 2013, 12:46 am
      • Thank you for your proofreading services; much appreciated, written when very tired. Nothing to say about what Damon Salesa saw happening, though? A bit like Catherine Isaac not being able to say exactly how charter schools will benefit Maori and Pasifika students? And I’m guessing you’re a follower of Cameron Slater.

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        Posted by Lena | April 25, 2013, 8:40 pm
  2. The more options one has, the better the outcome. I am all for choice, and I will always choose to have my children educated at whatever school best suits their needs, even if it is a “charter school”. It is time for the fear-mongering to stop and to embrace change. [If free thinking people didn’t have a vision we would still be in the dark ages.]

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    Posted by Gabriel Levy | April 24, 2013, 4:24 pm
  3. This poll has been farted upon by a roiling cesspit of mindless acolytes.

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    Posted by Awfully Oily | April 24, 2013, 4:39 pm
  4. I think the angst against Charter schools is a little like the anti marriage equality debate – not based on substnace, but on fear. Let us embrace a new model to help our children.

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    Posted by John.Doe. | April 24, 2013, 4:39 pm
  5. Just for the record, whilst I oppose charter schools myself, I am not representing the union or speaking for the union, and indeed if you actually read the blog or followed me regularly you would know I give them an earful every now and then, too. I am independent and have done a lot of research on charters. I am not against change, not at all. I just don’t believe this particular change is there to help minority groups or raise achievement at all. I also know the evidence against charters worldwide is far more substantial than the evidence for them being good. I am truly only against them because of my research and the evidence. If they worked I would be all for them, I assure you. ~Dianne (Independent since 1967)

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    Posted by Dianne - SaveOurSchoolsNZ | April 24, 2013, 4:48 pm
  6. Provided that nobody is forced to send their kids to one against their will then I can’t see what harm it will do to try it out. If it doesn’t succeed then nobody will go and the schools can be returned into the State sector.

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    Posted by James | April 24, 2013, 4:51 pm
    • Oh, and I’ve got some friends in the UK who send their kids to the UK equivalent (academies) – they absolutely love them and are very happy with the quality of teaching and the environment.

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      Posted by James | April 24, 2013, 4:54 pm
    • UnfortunatelyJames, if all goes belly up in the charter school, they may not just disappear, they will be outside the OIA for a start, and parents will have no power within the school.

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      Posted by L muray | April 24, 2013, 8:40 pm
    • And what about the kids that they affect? The ‘trials’ are going to be in areas where students are marginalised enough as it is. Would you want your child involved in a ‘trial’ for his/her education? This charter school trial also has more research saying that it’s not successful than research to say that it is.

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      Posted by MrTeacher | April 24, 2013, 9:14 pm
  7. 1. I’m all for parental choice in education.
    2. Charter schools have been successful and unsuccessful overseas, much like other schools.
    3. Many “qualified” and registered teachers have behaved abominally and criminally; I don’t see what protection the children are getting from registration
    4. If the teachers unions are dead against it, it’s a sure-fire winner.

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    Posted by miked999 | April 24, 2013, 6:24 pm
  8. There is already provision for communities and other interested parties to set up their own schools, they’re called private or independent schools. Or even to take an existing school and turn it into a “special character school” if they want a greater share of governmental funding and support. So there is already choice available, and not all private schools charge outrageous fees, some exchange parental labour and fundraising for a fee contribution, so they aren’t just the realm of the elite. The so-called “Partnership School” system hastily being set up is not only pointlessly reinventing the wheel, but also failing to learn from the pros and cons of charter schools internationally, or from our own school system, including private schools. And what is more, the “Partnership” model actually undermines several key elements of the National Party education policy, for example the proposal to require teachers to have a minimum of a post-graduate qualification, and the continuation of National Standards. I’m a homeschooling parent, so I absolutely believe in the necessity of choice in education, but I would rather see our limited education budget put towards improving the accessibility and results of the existing options, than spread even more thinly to incorporate a poorly implemented concept that wasn’t even part of our current government’s policy at election time. I recommend reading National’s 2011 education policy document, where you can clearly see that “Partnership Schools” were never part of the publicised plan, and thus have no mandate from voters – http://www.national.org.nz/PDF_General/Education_in_Schools_policy.pdf

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    Posted by Nova | April 24, 2013, 6:32 pm
  9. I hate the thought that protectionist, unionised, Labour nasties think they have a right to restrict options for my children’s education. I have looked at what I believe is objective evidence and am looking forward to having charter school options.
    So many teachers at state schools have been found guilty of revolting crimes (sexual abuse, up skirt photos, assault and gang involvement)in recent years that I wonder how charter schools could possibly do worse.
    Teachers tell us they know best, and that we should just shut up and trust them; can you imagine the reaction if, say, the police operated in the same way?

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    Posted by Mark | April 24, 2013, 6:44 pm
  10. It will give another option. If all else is failing why not try something new.

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    Posted by allyallynz | April 24, 2013, 7:19 pm
    • “If all else is failing” BUT all else isn’t failing. Just like business, government, schools, some things aren’t perfect, some things work well. If you are in business and profit is down, do you immediately shut up shop and try something completely different? I suspect not, you have a sale, move stock around, engage a business mentor. Well, get involved in your local school, find out and celebrate what they do well, and roll up your sleeves, get in and help where things are less than marvelous.

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      Posted by L muray | April 24, 2013, 8:38 pm
  11. I ask you this: How will market forces, running education as a competitive business, improve student outcomes?
    Show me the evidence Whale zombies.

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    Posted by Melulater | April 24, 2013, 8:58 pm
    • who said they are all going to be run as profitable businesses?

      Iwi could start not for profit schools, plenty of not for profits. works well overseas.

      And if they draw a profit, but do better for our kids, whats the problem?

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      Posted by massivelogic | April 24, 2013, 9:48 pm
      • And who says these organisations will lift achievement? How will we know when the only oversight an ombudsman will have will be for issues in regard to discipline/stand downs/exclusions?
        How will we know how students achieve in these schools? They will be excluded from having to use the dodgy National Standards. They won’t be subject to the dodgy league tables that state and integrated schools are. The OIA will not apply to these schools like state and integrated schools are.
        How comfortable are you with that? Especially when it is YOUR tax dollars funding the profits of these organisations. Especially when it is YOUR tax dollars not being accounted for publically.

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        Posted by Melulater | April 24, 2013, 10:42 pm
    • Profit isn’t bad.Teachers profit every day they go to work.

      I think its very ironic teachers complain about charter schools drawing profit when your very own unions profit from your hard work.

      As your wages draw from every bodies wages through taxation, unions technically double tip from the taxpayer.

      Get rid of unions – less of the education budget going to deadweights and more going towards the kids. the kids are the end goal, aren’t they?

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      Posted by Bob Simmons | April 24, 2013, 10:02 pm
      • Under that logic, doctors profit too. I don’t earn as much as a doctor by any means. I can’t schedule my work to make more money in the private sector like a doctor.
        And doctors have unions too. I’d like to see you try and get rid of their union.
        If we didn’t have unions we wouldn’t have the health and safety laws that exist today. We wouldn’t have the rights that work either for or against employers and employees. The 40 hour week (where did that go?) wouldn’t exist. No one would have even a sniff of a weekend or get holidays, sick days, paid for holidays and sick days, parental leave (paid or unpaid), basic rights like to have a morning/afternoon tea, lunch break or even go to the toilet. Think about that one.
        And the NZEI and PPTA do not get any money from the taxpayer. Their money comes from their members, members who work bloody hard for their money, because once it hits their bank accounts it is their money.

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        Posted by Melulater | April 24, 2013, 10:35 pm
  12. Am I wrong or is this a matter of choice for the parents? – not the teachers.
    I’ve had 3 kids through the Kiwi learning machine and (amongst the good ) have witnessed the worst of practices, methods and systems. Some so hopeless, that you just wouldn’t see it in the private sector.
    Give it a go – the good teachers will maybe be paid what they’re worth and the crappy ones….. will just stay in the state system untouched and sheltered like an old Pope in the Vatican…. or is that what the opposition is all about.
    All other sectors, Govt or otherwise seem to have performance reviews…. that teachers are so against this – just looks a bit suspect really .

    Like

    Posted by Roz | April 29, 2013, 2:09 pm
    • Teachers DO have performance reviews. I agree the system as it is needs improvement in some areas – I don’t know a single person that disagrees with that. I truly do not think charters will improve a thing, though. How will they help raise the standard – please explain to me. In other countries there have been the same problems with some good and some poor teachers in charters just as in public schools. Do your research (sand with a nice voice not in a snippy way) and you will see that they cause as many problems as they solve within the charters themselves AND cause even more problems in the public sector. That’s a step backwards.

      Like

      Posted by Dianne - SaveOurSchoolsNZ | April 29, 2013, 2:23 pm
  13. It’s about helping his friend John Banks make money.

    Like

    Posted by lisawhitefern | May 22, 2013, 10:51 am

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